tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3893665144141962944.post7491306414771745313..comments2024-01-25T15:09:03.714-08:00Comments on Whiskey's Place: More Scary VampiresWhiskeyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01854764809682029464noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3893665144141962944.post-31285260793762087972012-04-17T03:24:06.457-07:002012-04-17T03:24:06.457-07:00Thanks so much for this post, pretty helpful data....Thanks so much for this post, pretty helpful data.puertas metalicas en valenciahttp://www.josemoretsa.esnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3893665144141962944.post-39687991251961736772010-01-21T22:41:53.978-08:002010-01-21T22:41:53.978-08:00I think the reason why females prefer stratified s...I think the reason why females prefer stratified society is because in a stratified society you don't make the mistake of shunning or putting down somebody who can rise up. You are always keeping your option open to work upwards, to the correct people.<br />Add that to the fact that women see themselves as always right, plus the idea that they can do no wrong.<br />Have you tried to get a woman to apologise _sincerely_?<br />They become the ultimate losers, when they think that every guy not up to their standards is a "loser", for the very fact that the guys they see as "winners" are not going to be the guys that could give a rat's ass about them in the future when the girl has outlived her utility of social proof and sex.<br />Then again, given the way they've treated guys who would have behaved properly with them, maybe they deserve the players.P Raynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3893665144141962944.post-55656393021416246082008-11-21T17:06:00.000-08:002008-11-21T17:06:00.000-08:00Thanks Wiredgrenadier. I hope you enjoy my latest ...Thanks Wiredgrenadier. I hope you enjoy my latest post.Whiskeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01854764809682029464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3893665144141962944.post-19313194556362532432008-11-21T08:37:00.000-08:002008-11-21T08:37:00.000-08:00Thank you, Whiskey. Reading your blog has been a g...Thank you, Whiskey. Reading your blog has been a great experience so far, and I'm usually not the one to throw around praise.<BR/><BR/>As for Twilight, a rather humorous take on it as well as a very telling quote from the actor who plays Edward Cullen in the upcoming movie:<BR/><BR/>http://forum.spacebattles.com/showpost.php?p=3849618&postcount=54Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3893665144141962944.post-23172375333757437482008-11-21T01:05:00.000-08:002008-11-21T01:05:00.000-08:00I completely agree Wiredgrenadier and look for my ...I completely agree Wiredgrenadier and look for my post on Twilight soon.<BR/><BR/>It is bad fiction, and not only bad in it's own internal dramatic structure and choice of characters, but destructive to teen girls. The boyfriend character is essentially an older, controlling man who merely looks young but is not. Who in turn isolates the "heroine" from the possibilities of her life including College and career and eventual family and children and all that makes up life.Whiskeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01854764809682029464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3893665144141962944.post-43675669533685837512008-11-19T05:31:00.000-08:002008-11-19T05:31:00.000-08:00Not only can we see the detrimental effects these ...Not only can we see the detrimental effects these developments have on our societies (and men in general, as the prime loosing faction in the game), but even from a literary standpoint we are talking about truly bad things here. <BR/><BR/>"Twilight" is basically female wish-fulfillment fan fiction, full of completely shallow characters (who never really grow in depth), centered around a Mary-Sue of the worst kind and a supernatural being for whose love a compelling reason is never given.<BR/><BR/>More so, the characters also never face true challenges. The Twilight vampire type is immortal, wealthy, has a superhuman physique and is, quite frankly, indestructable. From a standpoint of character development and story suspense, those vampires and the world they roam in are about as interesting as a heap of bricks. Nothing of true impact is ever done with them (which is already symbolized through the first novel: its 600 pages could just as well have been 300, so little does truly happen).<BR/><BR/>Sorry Whiskey, for taking this comment thread into this direction, but I felt it had to be said. It's bad fiction, with bad effects.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3893665144141962944.post-29697654784237274742008-11-16T23:47:00.000-08:002008-11-16T23:47:00.000-08:00Free Love dates back at least to 1848 and the Onei...Free Love dates back at least to 1848 and the Oneida Community, which practiced group marriage. And yes, it worked out just about how you'd expect.Whiskeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01854764809682029464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3893665144141962944.post-61968259708673746552008-11-15T21:42:00.000-08:002008-11-15T21:42:00.000-08:00Teens are impressionable, but even teen women are ...Teens are impressionable, but even teen women are women... and their natural inclination is to prefer men who will "go the distance." I have a friend in academia who was rather incredulous about the "free love" orientation of the sixties generation, and ultimately decided that one of the major factors in the advance of "new left" politics was the desire of young men to get laid as often as they liked, with as few "strings" as possible. To accomplish this it was necessary to convince young women that they were part of a "movement" and that their duty to the movement included the provision of unencumbered sexual intercourse. In other words it was a scam.<BR/><BR/>I suppose that the reason Ayers and Dohrn ultimately got married is that they realized very few people outside of their closed sect would actually be able to tolerate them. So they were just optimizing. It worked out well for them I guess, even if they helped to deceive a gullible generation... or two.demosophisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00677722726429563710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3893665144141962944.post-67094943009431772432008-11-14T14:57:00.000-08:002008-11-14T14:57:00.000-08:00"For example, Buffy becomes romantically invo..."For example, Buffy becomes romantically involved with Spike at a point when she is depressed and suicidal and she explicitly describes her relationship with him as self-destructive and something she's ashamed of. Most characters disapprove of it. She ends it when she gets over her grief & stops wanting to die. The show doesn't glamorize their relationship at all, which came off as joyless and claustrophobic most of the time."<BR/><BR/>All that stuff is just the rationalizations that woman use.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3893665144141962944.post-41950086144322247962008-11-11T14:37:00.000-08:002008-11-11T14:37:00.000-08:00I love the part about Byron. After reading Obama'...I love the part about Byron. After reading Obama's bio, I am convinced that Obama's big appeal is tied into this post, that Obama has presented a narrative of himself as a Byronic hero, which is why the single women swoon over him and vote for him in droves.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3893665144141962944.post-82318684536624727182008-11-09T08:44:00.000-08:002008-11-09T08:44:00.000-08:00Two things, Whiskey. I think people are confused ...Two things, Whiskey. I think people are confused about the tv shows and movies. They are important not because women try to follow suit, but because the tv shows and movies are trying (successfully) to follow the women and act in a way the viewers will find "realistic".<BR/> Second, I think your last comment should be expanded. Men are far more at risk when choosing to deal with women, so long as they follow the "rules". It is a fact that the courts can and will ruin a man who has done nothing wrong, who has been the very definition of a "gentleman". Gives a real kick to the race to the bottom. Pushed from above, pulled from below, how long can chivalry survive such an environment?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3893665144141962944.post-14420005055060868242008-11-07T20:17:00.000-08:002008-11-07T20:17:00.000-08:00Lawful, you're probably right. I keep forgetting a...Lawful, you're probably right. I keep forgetting about the dynamics of the mating game.<BR/><BR/>Kevin, thanks for that link. Yes it's pretty compelling.<BR/><BR/>Good points various anons. <BR/><BR/>Dymphna -- you are quite correct. Poor Christina Applegate, a truly beautiful woman, would have been better served had she had a kid in her twenties. Her mother had breast cancer also. I did not know that about the settlement. Tragic. It's best not to cheat biology.<BR/><BR/>Which brings me to my next point. I think Buffy and other female empowerment shows in relationships depicted give women wrong ideas. Contrary to anon 8:14, part of the problem is that peers and media/entertainment like Buffy drive choices. Men need these lessons too, because distance from working parents, clueless and PC-driven schools, and toxic media/entertainment give men and women unrealistic expectations about each other and bad decision making models.<BR/><BR/>Sadly, Buffy and Spike have sex again, implied off-screen (but fans got it and Whedon confirmed it) in one of the last episodes.<BR/><BR/>I agree that Vampire novels and such are not the cause, but another indicator of a lot of problems between men and women which I think is at the heart of the Western weakness.<BR/><BR/>Women of course face far higher risks in making bad choices in men than men in women. I just think back to Dalyrmple's story about the 17 year old patient who replied it was "sexist" to suggest that she as a woman was weaker than the abusive boyfriend who broke her arm and would be better off without that person in her life.Whiskeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01854764809682029464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3893665144141962944.post-80476001795693836952008-11-07T08:23:00.000-08:002008-11-07T08:23:00.000-08:00Politically, this equates to a high degree of supp...<I>Politically, this equates to a high degree of support for socialism, among young women. Because socialism provides a frozen-in-amber society, with influential and powerful families running things by design.</I><BR/><BR/>You're overthinking things, Whiskey. Socialism sounds good, it has nearly unanimous support in education and the press, and supporting it makes one feel generous and virtuous. That is why women like it, not because of a desire for a feudal mating arrangement.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3893665144141962944.post-85345658519526606852008-11-06T20:14:00.000-08:002008-11-06T20:14:00.000-08:00I don't worry too much about these shows havin...I don't worry too much about these shows having a major effect on people's real life behavior - most people do not confuse the mere depiction of something as an endorsement of it. The relationships you find dysfunctional are portrayed this way by the writers on purpose - they are not supposed to be healthy or sweet love stories. They are, in keeping with the times, trying to showcase the seamier sides of human behavior. <BR/><BR/>For example, Buffy becomes romantically involved with Spike at a point when she is depressed and suicidal and she explicitly describes her relationship with him as self-destructive and something she's ashamed of. Most characters disapprove of it. She ends it when she gets over her grief & stops wanting to die. The show doesn't glamorize their relationship at all, which came off as joyless and claustrophobic most of the time. <BR/><BR/>It was controversial among fans, but moral of that storyline - "play with bad boys and you get burned" - (Spike's response to being dumped is obsessive stalking and an unsuccessful attempt at rape) was remarkable by how realistic it was. Even as far back as the 50's, a favorite movie trope is the violent amoral "bad boy" who is reformed and domesticated by the "good girl", whose love redeems him, which rarely happens in real life. <BR/><BR/>Here, when love sours and things don't go his way, the bad boy realistically responds with violence against the girl. Loving her does not redeem him because feeling love or passion is not the same as having morals - he's bad and that's that. <BR/><BR/>He's only somewhat redeemed by literally having a soul & conscience implanted in him (not having a soul being this show's real marker of who is good & who is evil) because he's horrified by what he did and by choosing to fight on the side of good (although thankfully, post-rape attempt, he & Buffy never have sex again).<BR/><BR/>There's always the danger with well-written characters and stories that viewers and readers will sympathize or rationalize too much, especially if the bad boy has a painful past ("He's not bad, he's misunderstood/it's a cry for help!). But I would hate to not have thoughtful explorations of the stupid things we often do onscreen. <BR/><BR/>But none of this is new - the flip side of Austen's sensible heroines is Emily Bronte's moody, vengeful, violent, obsessive Heathcliff, who has somehow come down to us as a great romantic hero although the book itself pulls no punches about what kind of person he is.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3893665144141962944.post-15065099646770810412008-11-06T12:27:00.000-08:002008-11-06T12:27:00.000-08:00Kevin beat me to it, I was going to mention that 7...Kevin beat me to it, I was going to mention that 70% of unmarried women voted for Obama. I always knew that when single motherhood became the norm Dems would become the monopoly party. Women are now sharing alpha males and bad boys, having their children and avoiding betas alltogether who would have made good family men. The Dems will give single mothers a standard of living that is equal to what it would have been if they settled for a beta, although their children will be worse off in many ways.<BR/><BR/>I am a nice guy (who has no desire in learning PUA skills) and have had so many women put me in the friend zone through the years. I have stayed in touch with them through the years. They all became single mothers and all with no exceptions get some type of welfare supplement. <BR/><BR/>One woman I know decided she wanted to be a mother at age 21. She said "I'm going to go to the club, find the best looking guy I can find and F him". That's exactly what she did. She now has two children from two random alpha male fathers and get's rewarded with a ton of welfare. She eats better with food stamps than any working single man I know. Her son is already showing criminal tendencies. Yes, she voted for Obama. <BR/><BR/>I have other stories more extreme than this, including women I know who will only date men who are convicted criminals.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3893665144141962944.post-89636401242425183602008-11-06T12:09:00.000-08:002008-11-06T12:09:00.000-08:00Btw, re anonymous above, he's quite right, but...Btw, re anonymous above, he's quite right, but I feel his points only complement yours.<BR/>Longman has written convingly (for me at least) about that.<BR/>A few more links to go along anony, easier for me than actually backing my ideas with arguments!<BR/><BR/>The Global Baby Bust<BR/>http://tinyurl.com/2qjw6<BR/><BR/>Fertility, Faith, & the Future of the West<BR/>http://www.christianitytoday.com/bc/2007/003/4.28.html<BR/><BR/>The Baby Gap: Explaining Red and Blue<BR/>http://www.isteve.com/BabyGap.htm<BR/><BR/>Faith, fertility and American dominance <BR/>The Empty Cradle by Phillip Longman<BR/>http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/FI08Aa01.html (NB : "Spengler" writes a lot about faith and demography, cf. <BR/>http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/GK01Aa01.html<BR/>http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/GK08Aa01.html )<BR/><BR/>plus a few others by Longman which I didn't bookmark.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3893665144141962944.post-89209139644198762022008-11-06T11:55:00.000-08:002008-11-06T11:55:00.000-08:00Love your blog, I discovered it only a short while...Love your blog, I discovered it only a short while back from your Belmont club comments, resonate with a lot of what I've read and tried to synthetize as my own theories - though you make a much better job of what I ever could do on my own. I'll definitively follow you.<BR/>On a somewhat related note, check this :<BR/>Unmarried women put Obama over the tophttp://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=80246Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3893665144141962944.post-84931286341415354362008-11-06T10:27:00.000-08:002008-11-06T10:27:00.000-08:00Of the reasons so many urban people delay marriage...Of the reasons so many urban people delay marriage and children, I think Vampire novels are a bit down the list. <BR/><BR/><BR/>Simply put, secular societies dont effectively breed at replacement levels. Religous one's do. If you have to get married to have sex, you get married. Kids end up being a consequence of marriage because the woman will want them and so will the man after the thrill of the chase for sex is gone. Your married, there is only one person you are going to fuck that night. Whats next? A couple of little ones that you will fall in love with, naturally. Maybe even a third when the first two get to be teenagers because you pine for the days when the first two were tots (weren't they cute? remember how they used to.......lets have ONE more before we are too old). The church-going couple now have three. <BR/><BR/><BR/>The biggest feminist I knew in high school, a real "I can do anything the boys can do, but better" exemplar turned into a Jesus freak and has 6 kids that she homeschools. When a pal told me that, I literally refused to believe her, but I looked online and there she was............with six kids. I'd have believed I could have grown six more legs and metamorphasized into a spider a la Kafka than believed she'd have done that. Religion is powerful. <BR/><BR/><BR/>If you are secular, you have adult toys made to rigorous standards in factories, not a cucumber from the fridge, DVD-quality porn with girls and guys that look like real models, a comfortable living space, websites like AdultFriendFinder that will hook you up with others who want "no-strings-attatched-sex" and nothing else, nightclubs, Oil of Olay to stave off the years, and other diversions. These things can keep you from getting married until you are really fading yourself. Even if you do tie the knot, you only have enough time for about one kid. <BR/><BR/>The religious couple down the street have four. See where this leads? You get outbred. <BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>If it weren't for immigration and the tendency of blacks to vote liberal...........just amongst whites, this nation would be leeching very much rightward at this point. I mean we'd have presidents like Pat Buchanan. Could you imagine if the GOP could get 50% of the black vote, and there had been no Immigration Reform Act of 1965? Amongst whites, things would be getting VERY conservative by now, because secular whites just have not kept up with the religous ones in the mating game. I'd wager the average Christian family has about 2.5 kids, the average secular one has about 1.5 kids. Two generations and one group would dominate the other-----and the losing groups children (people love a winner), would latch onto the larger group to be part of the "winning" side. <BR/><BR/><BR/>Great civilizations have flowered and died before (Greece, Babylon, Rome, Egypt, etc.). Perhaps ours will be no different. I hope future historians five hundred years down the line note more about us than our awful movies.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3893665144141962944.post-39156183297904170442008-11-03T22:16:00.000-08:002008-11-03T22:16:00.000-08:00The post and the comments are fascinating, but it'...The post and the comments are fascinating, but it's as though I've entered an alien world.<BR/><BR/>Young people I know are getting married, planning families eventually, and are members of a large kinship network. Are there tensions? Sure. But there are in all human relationships. What's the deal?<BR/><BR/>I do know single women and they seem singularly sad to me. It's obvious they'd like to be married. My feeling is that if you want marriage badly enough you have to go after it methodically. And you have to be willing to "settle" for something out of your comfort zone.<BR/><BR/>In my case, my husband is ten years younger than me. He homeschooled our son and was a landscape artist. He held lots of odd jobs and then went back to systems analysis when the rubber hit the road and we needed high school and college tuition.<BR/><BR/>The Baron is quite a manly nerd. He is persistent, kind, and has a truly amazing stamina. He has the most integrity of anyone I know. His son wants to be like him (except for his singing voice) and looks forward to founding his own family someday.<BR/><BR/>Fortunately for me, the B has always preferred zaftig women. He thinks men who want centerfold women are doomed to the loneliness of fantasy.<BR/><BR/>One thing you fail to mention: women who have many sexual partners over the course of their lives are much more likely to die of diseases of the organs of reproduction. Cancer of the vagina used to be rare but it's not any more.<BR/><BR/>The Fem libs hide under the rug this information as it relates to breast cancer. Any young woman who has a first degree female relative who had BRCA should *not* have an abortion of her first pregnancy. Failure to carry it to term will increase her own chances for BRCA by her 30's. <BR/><BR/>A couple of years ago two teenagers won settlements out of court from abortion centers in Washington state because they were not "counseled" about this risk during their interview. Both had mothers with BRCA and both aborted. They stand a much higher chance of developing BRCA themselves now.<BR/><BR/>The old way -- "going to visit Aunt Matilda" -- and giving the baby up for adoption if you can't care for it ensured the long-term sexual health of the mother. At least it did so if she didn't proceed to have multiple sexual partners.<BR/><BR/>Mother Nature is harsh.Dymphnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11332644582520636279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3893665144141962944.post-90420754633124354122008-11-03T12:07:00.000-08:002008-11-03T12:07:00.000-08:00Yes, PA, marriage in a traditional nation is a bad...Yes, PA, marriage in a traditional nation is a bad deal for women, particularly the mother-in-law issue. However, what is notable is that in highly mobile, atomized nations like the US, marriage is replaced by single motherhood.<BR/><BR/>In 1965, the White single mother rate was 4%, now it is 41%. In Britain, it is over 50%, with similar numbers in the Scandinavian nations. <BR/><BR/>This is happening even though expectations of marriage and roles are far different. Look at the reaction to Todd Palin among feminists. He should be celebrated -- a guy who took time off to care for the kids so Sarah Palin could continue her career. IIRC he took a year off during the Gubernatorial transition. Yet feminists attacked Palin as some sort of Neanderthal mainly because of his class and status, which is blue collar. <BR/><BR/>What is instructive is that younger, single women find Palin herself a negative figure, based on her personal life. Their objection: the kids and the husband, the latter lacking in status and prestige. IMHO a huge indicator of a preference for social status above all others given financial independence and great social and physical mobility.<BR/><BR/>After all, in America the contact with mothers-in-law is limited to maybe every other Thanksgiving. Men are expected to shoulder household tasks and surveys show that they do indeed in most marriages.<BR/><BR/>Anon 11:18 -- My hostility towards Buffy (in particular) and to a lesser extent Veronica Mars is that the model they show is one of single motherhood. Eschewing the Todd Palin types who can provide emotional support the heroines choose the most "female Alpha" type of guys, who are the most physically dominant, and Byronic Bad Boy in character.<BR/><BR/>The problem is that this cultural model is both a shaper (in the atomized lives of modern men and women) and a reflector of deep cultural changes. Pursuing Byronic Bad Boy vampires does not work in real life, and tends to produce a generation of single mothers. With a society of either gangsta thugs to nerdy isolates sprinkled with pickup artists.<BR/><BR/>Buffy, in particular, did not fight for anything in the end but her own social superiority, and sense of Yuppie elite entitlement with powers and the murderous Byronic bad boy to validate her existence. Her vampires were neither good nor men, existing on a plane of pure power and status, with "exciting violence." Buffy in the last season repeatedly wanted the old killer-Spike filled with violence to return, and had little objection to having sex with the character after he raped her. Nor did she object to Spike's murderous past, she seemed to enjoy it. [Buffy early in the show's run embraced a moral code, but the show's weakness was that morality, ethics, altruism, and social connections all went out the window whenever a Byronic Bad Boy over-rode all other elements in Buffy's life, including family and friends.]<BR/><BR/>Veronica Mars was not as bad, but still in the character of Logan had the lead falling into fairly stupid Byronic Bad Boy relationships, that made the character look stupid and driven by her need for a classically physically dominant man who also has social power.<BR/><BR/>My objection to this (in common with Buffy btw) is that it practically guarantees a "race to the bottom" in male behavior. Any young man in adolescence watching those shows will conclude that the ONLY thing that matters is physical dominance, violence, and social status, with a good heaping helping of humiliation of other, lesser men. Given that Buffy (and nearly all the other female characters on the show) made that their criteria, and Veronica Mars did also. <BR/><BR/>Event the most physically slight and slender guy can use tools to inflict a great deal of violence. Whether it is Columbine, or Virginia Tech, a "race to the bottom" is guaranteed to produce that kind of behavior when mental illness slips the bounds of rational calculation. And at the other end, men will quickly adopt thug-behavior and skirting the limits of retaliation/punishment. Marvin Gaye in 1965 sang songs of sweet altruistic love, and in the present, rappers boast of sexual prowess and humiliating rivals by having sex with the rivals girlfriends and wives.<BR/><BR/>In my post on <A HREF="http://whiskeys-place.blogspot.com/2008/06/alpha-male-beta-and-pitcairn-island-or.html" REL="nofollow">Pitcairn Island</A> I describe a real-life example of how this "race to the bottom" actually works out, when men engage in this competition, net result all but one of the men murdered each other in a brutal fight over the women.<BR/><BR/>I think there has been a big shift in the overall (individuals vary of course) criteria of female choice. Dalrymple's books detailing his experiences, Buffy and Veronica Mars, the Gossip Girl shows, the Vampire equivalents, the negative reaction to Palin's personal life, all show a big shift to just a few attributes in men that are guaranteed to produce a disastrous male "race to the bottom" in one form or another.<BR/><BR/>A race to the bottom, moreover, that threatens the underpinnings of Western society -- cooperation, trust, innate adherence to social norms above and beyond "legalisms" of what one can get away with.Whiskeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01854764809682029464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3893665144141962944.post-44711993864257255192008-11-03T05:21:00.000-08:002008-11-03T05:21:00.000-08:00-- It's not surprising that the European countries...<I> -- It's not surprising that the European countries with the most traditional views of women have the lowest birth rates as well. </I><BR/><BR/>Anonymous is on to something here. (But would he please pick a handle?)<BR/><BR/>I can see how in Japan and in traditional countries like Italy, Spain, or Eastern Europe, some women may have gone on "marriage-strike." Knowing women, I can say with great assurance that it's commonplace for a senior woman (the mother-in-law in this case) to treat the junior woman (the son's wife) horridly. It's no wonder that when women have ability to make their own living, they prefer to live alone or with their parents than in her husband's household.<BR/><BR/>There was a study out recently that showed how most women hate having female bosses, and that many female supervisors tend to mistreat their female employees in very capricious ways.<BR/><BR/>Of course, this marriage-strike is not the whole picture, although it does add an interesting factor I haven't considered yet.<BR/><BR/>Other factros, certainly are economic opportunities that influence some women to chase "bad boys" per Whiskey, even if I think he overstates the phenomenon. <BR/><BR/>And there is also Sailer's "Affordable Family Formation" theory of cheap real estate being marriage & children-friendly, and ther is feminism, and immigration's role in surpressing native birthrates, and otehr factors.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3893665144141962944.post-83245823941333146472008-11-02T23:18:00.000-08:002008-11-02T23:18:00.000-08:00Yes young women seem to have decisively rejected f...<I> Yes young women seem to have decisively rejected feminism. </I><BR/><BR/>They've rejected calling themselves feminist. But I think so many feminist ideas are now so deeply ingrained in the culture that they are not considered feminist, but "normal" or framed in a softer way ("You go, girl!", "Girl power!") especially for girls middle-class or above.<BR/><BR/><I> <BR/>For all of feminism's chorus of changing society, it is instructive that none of these novels show the protagonist gaining a career, a skill, a family with a supportive husband, or entering into a traditionally male field where the protagonist is accepted as an equal on her own terms. </I><BR/><BR/>Yes, which is why I think your hostility towards shows like Buffy and Veronica Mars is misplaced - whatever their faults, the primary role of the main female characters was to work for justice and help, protect, & defend others and they regularly wrestled with difficult moral dilemmas, sacrificed their happiness for the greater good, and embraced unpopularity as the cost of doing the right thing. Compared to current crap like the novels you mentioned, or shows like Gossip Girl, where bored rich kids basically babble about clothes, jockey to rule the popular clique, and make-out w/ each other, those two shows had a lot to recommend them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3893665144141962944.post-19915720191099445892008-11-02T22:54:00.000-08:002008-11-02T22:54:00.000-08:00Japanese women, like their American and European c...<I> Japanese women, like their American and European counterparts, would rather chase after the closest thing to Edward Cullen society has to offer, or indulge in consumerism, than marry their male counterparts and have children. </I><BR/><BR/>What is interesting about Japan is that it is a modern industrialized country that did not have a feminist movement. As such, Japanese society remains very traditional about gender roles. <BR/><BR/>Many Japanese women refuse to marry because they (often quite reasonably) view marriage as a raw deal for women e.g. women are expected to stop working after marriage & become housewives, subject themselves to the will of their in-laws, Japanese husbands do not play a major role in child rearing or in family life as they are expected to devote themselves to their employers (a schedule in which the husband leaves home early, comes back late at night, spends weekends and other leisure time schmoozing with coworkers or catching up on sleep is common).<BR/><BR/>When I asked the women I met when I was working in Japan why they were uninterested in marriage, they frequently pointed at their mothers in marriages where they barely saw their husbands, had to care for critical, demanding mother-in-laws who made their lives miserable, had largely raised their children alone, had no career of their own and said "I don't want that". <BR/><BR/>So in a society modern enough that women are educated & can find work so they don't need a husband to support them, but with no feminism force society to accommodate women who want career & family and expect men to be hands-on dads & help out in the domestic sphere, you have this dynamic where marriage and birth rates plunge. <BR/><BR/>The only way this is going to reverse itself is if there is major readjustment in the attitudes of Japanese men, employers, and the government. So it's not looking good for Japan.<BR/><BR/>However, as you pointed out, feminism leads to its own problems with regard to declining marriage rates. However, I do believe that the changes it wrought made marriage & childbearing more attractive (i.e. less costly) to women - if the US had the same expectations of wives as Japan does, our marriage/birth rates would also be in the toilet. <BR/>It's not surprising that the European countries with the most traditional views of women have the lowest birth rates as well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3893665144141962944.post-28984467484433034512008-11-02T16:04:00.000-08:002008-11-02T16:04:00.000-08:00Whiskey, I think anonymous needs to blame both sid...Whiskey, I think anonymous needs to blame both sides, not because of any observation, but because noting that women are the ones who ended marriage and brought back harems is abhorrent to men, who are still following the dead rules of chivalry, and women, who have embraced their new found freedom but have flinched from any concept of responsibility, old or new.<BR/><BR/> It looks to me that the game is rigged at the moment. With the current "sexual harassment" laws, male managers have responsibility for women employees but no power over them, something akin to modern "marriage". Why wouldn't it be hard to find someone stupid enough to volunteer for such a position?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3893665144141962944.post-2857218559981382562008-11-02T10:53:00.000-08:002008-11-02T10:53:00.000-08:00Perhaps Anon, though the complaint of guys post-Co...Perhaps Anon, though the complaint of guys post-College, in workplaces that are un-sexy, i.e. engineering, IT, things of that nature, is that they get no dates at all, due to the nature of the competition.<BR/><BR/>Average attractive women in the urban centers, say NYC, or Boston, or LA, have not only their same age male peers competing for them, but also older guys who have a power-status advantage over younger men. So a woman of average attractiveness, about what you would find in the local mall, in her twenties, will have far more suitors for her favors than a man of merely average status/power/looks/dominance has.<BR/><BR/>It's argued that this creates an unequal sexual marketplace. Even a woman of average attractiveness can entertain offers from a more testosterone heavy guy, if she is willing to share, and increasingly women seem to be willing. <BR/><BR/>Then, in her mid-thirties, she finds the situation reversed. Her peers who found her attractive 7-10 years ago, now pursue younger women. Her dating pool is filled with men who have limited social skills and are perceived as "boring." There has not been a period of years of intense bonding through a monogamous relationship, releasing hormones to help cement a bond. Instead the effect of many partners has been to reduce the effect of the hormones for both men and women. Some researchers have suggested that this is why "first love" is often the most intense -- the hormones effect is undiluted through multiple partners and learned behavior (to discard their effect). It's true that women in NYC for example, have reported higher lifetime partners (15) vs. the national average (9). Many of course can report around 40 -- note that the national and NYC averages include older women from a time of much more resticted sexual behavior.<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure that a period of economic retrenchment would address this imbalance in the sexual marketplace in the twenties that seems to be at the heart of the West's problems. As long as women have relative to men, equal earnings, and the power to demand, politically, equal earnings, then they have the independence to entertain multiple offers, from men their own age, and the larger pool of men (due to declining demographics) of unattached men in their thirties desiring a woman in the twenties age range (greater attractiveness, fertility, fewer partners) that for men are more desireable.Whiskeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01854764809682029464noreply@blogger.com